Day 2 Predictions - Revision history

BerkmanSysop: UTurn to 1267401600

2024-08-14T19:57:21Z

UTurn to 1267401600

← Older revision	Revision as of 19:57, 14 August 2024
(No difference)

68.65.169.173: /* Chuck */

2010-01-06T01:04:52Z

Chuck

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	Reuben: With regards to the relationship between Chuck and Mark, I think that while Chuck will make statements supporting the GNI, he is unlikely to challenge Mark or CISCO to join. I'd also expect Chuck to express some reticence in allowing auditors too much freedom to access sensitive information.		Reuben: With regards to the relationship between Chuck and Mark, I think that while Chuck will make statements supporting the GNI, he is unlikely to challenge Mark or CISCO to join. I'd also expect Chuck to express some reticence in allowing auditors too much freedom to access sensitive information.

			Amanda: I think Chuck will be supportive of GNI's attempts to create an independent entity to deal with privacy issues and hope that he will make a compelling case for how the organization will be able to both grow and scale and include new members while not diluting the message.

	Victoria: I suspect that Chuck will applaud the movement already made by GNI and that it creates a safe space for companies like Yahoo!, Google and Microsoft since they come to some form of a consensus it gives them a feeling that they have reached a Best Practices Guide - that has been steered by enough people that it is ethically correct. However, I'd like to know more about whether these companies have stepped into an inappropriate role by creating GNI. In essence, these companies are acting as law makers - and yet they have not been elected. . . by the US let alone the international community. Should there be more checks on GNI? Should their be conversations with elected representatives from countries? Do they ever feel nervous about their place in this rule-making position?		Victoria: I suspect that Chuck will applaud the movement already made by GNI and that it creates a safe space for companies like Yahoo!, Google and Microsoft since they come to some form of a consensus it gives them a feeling that they have reached a Best Practices Guide - that has been steered by enough people that it is ethically correct. However, I'd like to know more about whether these companies have stepped into an inappropriate role by creating GNI. In essence, these companies are acting as law makers - and yet they have not been elected. . . by the US let alone the international community. Should there be more checks on GNI? Should their be conversations with elected representatives from countries? Do they ever feel nervous about their place in this rule-making position?

Brunomagrani: /* Mark */

2010-01-06T00:56:14Z

Mark

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	Ramesh: I wonder if Mark will agree with the distinction I tried to draw below between removing content that's objectionable to governments and providing private information to those governments to find dissidents. It seems like Cisco's technologies could be used for either; does Mark think both are acceptable forms of behavior?		Ramesh: I wonder if Mark will agree with the distinction I tried to draw below between removing content that's objectionable to governments and providing private information to those governments to find dissidents. It seems like Cisco's technologies could be used for either; does Mark think both are acceptable forms of behavior?

			Bruno: I guess the easiest way for him to dodge the question of why Cisco did not join GNI is the âwe have to abide by local legislationâ excuse, and that's most probably what he will do. Unless GNI can come up with stronger incentives for companies to join the initiative â stronger meaning better economic incentives â, companies like Cisco will always be able to come up with that excuse with a straight face and do not feel compelled to do any extra effort to improve it's business practices concerning freedom of expression privacy issues.

	= Dunstan =		= Dunstan =

5619674: /* Chuck */

2010-01-06T00:43:16Z

Chuck

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	Victoria: I suspect that Chuck will applaud the movement already made by GNI and that it creates a safe space for companies like Yahoo!, Google and Microsoft since they come to some form of a consensus it gives them a feeling that they have reached a Best Practices Guide - that has been steered by enough people that it is ethically correct. However, I'd like to know more about whether these companies have stepped into an inappropriate role by creating GNI. In essence, these companies are acting as law makers - and yet they have not been elected. . . by the US let alone the international community. Should there be more checks on GNI? Should their be conversations with elected representatives from countries? Do they ever feel nervous about their place in this rule-making position?		Victoria: I suspect that Chuck will applaud the movement already made by GNI and that it creates a safe space for companies like Yahoo!, Google and Microsoft since they come to some form of a consensus it gives them a feeling that they have reached a Best Practices Guide - that has been steered by enough people that it is ethically correct. However, I'd like to know more about whether these companies have stepped into an inappropriate role by creating GNI. In essence, these companies are acting as law makers - and yet they have not been elected. . . by the US let alone the international community. Should there be more checks on GNI? Should their be conversations with elected representatives from countries? Do they ever feel nervous about their place in this rule-making position?


			Franny: As applicable to both Chuck and Dunstan, I think there might be some discussion as to how including non-governmental/non-private sector organizations such as EFF adds legitimacy to GNI's purpose and goals. I have to wonder to what extent these organizations also serve safety watchdogs roles within GNI, where clashes between public and private perspectives arise (even if they're supposed to be on the same team).

Vbaranetsky: /* Chuck */

2010-01-06T00:17:32Z

Chuck

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	Reuben: With regards to the relationship between Chuck and Mark, I think that while Chuck will make statements supporting the GNI, he is unlikely to challenge Mark or CISCO to join. I'd also expect Chuck to express some reticence in allowing auditors too much freedom to access sensitive information.		Reuben: With regards to the relationship between Chuck and Mark, I think that while Chuck will make statements supporting the GNI, he is unlikely to challenge Mark or CISCO to join. I'd also expect Chuck to express some reticence in allowing auditors too much freedom to access sensitive information.


			Victoria: I suspect that Chuck will applaud the movement already made by GNI and that it creates a safe space for companies like Yahoo!, Google and Microsoft since they come to some form of a consensus it gives them a feeling that they have reached a Best Practices Guide - that has been steered by enough people that it is ethically correct. However, I'd like to know more about whether these companies have stepped into an inappropriate role by creating GNI. In essence, these companies are acting as law makers - and yet they have not been elected. . . by the US let alone the international community. Should there be more checks on GNI? Should their be conversations with elected representatives from countries? Do they ever feel nervous about their place in this rule-making position?

Sharona Hakimi: /* Chuck */

2010-01-05T21:35:30Z

Chuck

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	::Michael: I expect that Chuck will express some level of understanding that many companies are still reticent to join GNI in its infancy before there are any real tangible benefits (especially for smaller companies). But I also expect that he will express some optimism that more companies and organizations will begin to join as GNI matures and proves itself.		::Michael: I expect that Chuck will express some level of understanding that many companies are still reticent to join GNI in its infancy before there are any real tangible benefits (especially for smaller companies). But I also expect that he will express some optimism that more companies and organizations will begin to join as GNI matures and proves itself.
	::I would like to hear how Chuck thinks abiding by GNI guidelines might affect smaller companies. If such companies refuse to give foreign governments the information they request, could a boycott of services by that country's government have have a disastrous effect on a smaller companies bottom line?		::I would like to hear how Chuck thinks abiding by GNI guidelines might affect smaller companies. If such companies refuse to give foreign governments the information they request, could a boycott of services by that country's government have have a disastrous effect on a smaller companies bottom line?

			Sharona: Along these lines, I would be interested to hear how he thinks he could make newer, especially significantly smaller, companies joining GNI feel a part of the team. As the wiki primer points out, the people at Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have worked together for years to create the foundation of GNI, and it will be hard for additional members to feel they can make a contribution without feeling like second class citizens. Even though Chuck will likely say this can be overcome by a feeling of inclusiveness and democratic collaboration, I would push back to see how willing they would be to re-imagine some of the core tenants of GNI in order to fit the needs of other types of companies.

	Juan: As a stakeholders unite, GNI is supposed to have more flexibility and accommodation than its legislative alternatives, such as GOFA. With this flexibility, how will it attract new members in China, such as Baidu (www.baidu.com, the market leader of search services), Kaixin network (www.kaixin001.com, the most popular social network website in China, which is a knockoff of facebook), Tudou (www.tudou.com, the biggest video site mainly serving local videos) and etc. Facing with a very powerful government, I doubt they will have an incentive to join the GNI.		Juan: As a stakeholders unite, GNI is supposed to have more flexibility and accommodation than its legislative alternatives, such as GOFA. With this flexibility, how will it attract new members in China, such as Baidu (www.baidu.com, the market leader of search services), Kaixin network (www.kaixin001.com, the most popular social network website in China, which is a knockoff of facebook), Tudou (www.tudou.com, the biggest video site mainly serving local videos) and etc. Facing with a very powerful government, I doubt they will have an incentive to join the GNI.

Rnagarajan: /* Mark */

2010-01-05T21:16:12Z

Mark

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	:Elisabeth: I also wonder how true it is that these are "international" standards, rather than American or American/European standards.		:Elisabeth: I also wonder how true it is that these are "international" standards, rather than American or American/European standards.

	Michael: I expect Mark will point out that GNI's primary focus seems to be providing guidelines for instances in which a government or other entity makes direct requests of a company for information (ID of a dissident) or to take certain action (block certain functions of software), but that these values are inapplicable to much of what Cisco does. Cisco is likely less concerned with such direct inquiries and more concerned with customers altering its devices to accomplish bad objectives. The kinds of hardline, direct guidelines that GNI will likely promulgate to address issues that would apply to governments' direct inquiries to Microsoft, Google and Yahoo would be very difficult to apply to companies like Cisco who provide heavily customizable software. In fact, any steps Cisco might take to prevent consumers from using its products to violate GNI rules would, itself, violate the rule encouraging freedom of expression by the consumer of such products. (of course the easy response to this might be that all of these are, a fortiori (had to throw some legal speak in here somewhere), reasons that companies like Cisco should be a part of the conversation to create rules that will be more generally applicable.		Michael: I expect Mark will point out that GNI's primary focus seems to be providing guidelines for instances in which a government or other entity makes direct requests of a company for information (ID of a dissident) or to take certain action (block certain functions of software), but that these values are inapplicable to much of what Cisco does. Cisco is likely less concerned with such direct inquiries and more concerned with customers altering its devices to accomplish bad objectives. The kinds of hardline, direct guidelines that GNI will likely promulgate to address issues that would apply to governments' direct inquiries to Microsoft, Google and Yahoo would be very difficult to apply to companies like Cisco who provide heavily customizable software. In fact, any steps Cisco might take to prevent consumers from using its products to violate GNI rules would, itself, violate the rule encouraging freedom of expression by the consumer of such products. (of course the easy response to this might be that all of these are, a fortiori (had to throw some legal speak in here somewhere), reasons that companies like Cisco should be a part of the conversation to create rules that will be more generally applicable.

			Ramesh: I wonder if Mark will agree with the distinction I tried to draw below between removing content that's objectionable to governments and providing private information to those governments to find dissidents. It seems like Cisco's technologies could be used for either; does Mark think both are acceptable forms of behavior?

	= Dunstan =		= Dunstan =

Rnagarajan: /* Dunstan */

2010-01-05T21:13:18Z

Dunstan

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	: Daniel: It would be great if we further explored the (blurring) division between these two country-types. Was Google's first move in the negotiation with Turkey - accepting to block videos insulting AtatÃ¼rk, but only within the country's limits - OK under the GNI principles? How much can a country legitimately curb freedom of speech, according to the GNI framework? IMO, its diplomatic language allows for an "American" interpretation, but also for an "European" one and perhaps others even more restrictive.		: Daniel: It would be great if we further explored the (blurring) division between these two country-types. Was Google's first move in the negotiation with Turkey - accepting to block videos insulting AtatÃ¼rk, but only within the country's limits - OK under the GNI principles? How much can a country legitimately curb freedom of speech, according to the GNI framework? IMO, its diplomatic language allows for an "American" interpretation, but also for an "European" one and perhaps others even more restrictive.
	Reuben: I'd be interested in hearing how BSR's involvement with the GNI was different than corporate social responsibility projects in other economic sectors and how that speaks to the uniqueness of ICT and these issues.		Reuben: I'd be interested in hearing how BSR's involvement with the GNI was different than corporate social responsibility projects in other economic sectors and how that speaks to the uniqueness of ICT and these issues.
	Ramesh: I'd like to hear Dunstan draw distinctions between two types of conduct that often seem to be conflated in this area -- removing content at the best of governments (Google.cn) vs. providing private information to governments that can lead to the arrest and prosecution of dissidents (Shi Tao). The first seems like a necessary step to take for companies to conduct business in countries with different laws, while the second seems to raise much more serious ethical issues, as the company is actively helping repressive governments search out and persecute dissidents. I suspect that Dunstan may draw this distinction, as perhaps companies, both inside and outside the GNI, think there are serious differences between the two types of conduct.		: Ramesh: I'd like to hear Dunstan draw distinctions between two types of conduct that often seem to be conflated in this area -- removing content at the best of governments (Google.cn) vs. providing private information to governments that can lead to the arrest and prosecution of dissidents (Shi Tao). The first seems like a necessary step to take for companies to conduct business in countries with different laws, while the second seems to raise much more serious ethical issues, as the company is actively helping repressive governments search out and persecute dissidents. I suspect that Dunstan may draw this distinction, as perhaps companies, both inside and outside the GNI, think there are serious differences between the two types of conduct.

	= Chuck =		= Chuck =

Rnagarajan: /* Dunstan */

2010-01-05T21:12:49Z

Dunstan

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	: Daniel: It would be great if we further explored the (blurring) division between these two country-types. Was Google's first move in the negotiation with Turkey - accepting to block videos insulting AtatÃ¼rk, but only within the country's limits - OK under the GNI principles? How much can a country legitimately curb freedom of speech, according to the GNI framework? IMO, its diplomatic language allows for an "American" interpretation, but also for an "European" one and perhaps others even more restrictive.		: Daniel: It would be great if we further explored the (blurring) division between these two country-types. Was Google's first move in the negotiation with Turkey - accepting to block videos insulting AtatÃ¼rk, but only within the country's limits - OK under the GNI principles? How much can a country legitimately curb freedom of speech, according to the GNI framework? IMO, its diplomatic language allows for an "American" interpretation, but also for an "European" one and perhaps others even more restrictive.
	Reuben: I'd be interested in hearing how BSR's involvement with the GNI was different than corporate social responsibility projects in other economic sectors and how that speaks to the uniqueness of ICT and these issues.		Reuben: I'd be interested in hearing how BSR's involvement with the GNI was different than corporate social responsibility projects in other economic sectors and how that speaks to the uniqueness of ICT and these issues.
			Ramesh: I'd like to hear Dunstan draw distinctions between two types of conduct that often seem to be conflated in this area -- removing content at the best of governments (Google.cn) vs. providing private information to governments that can lead to the arrest and prosecution of dissidents (Shi Tao). The first seems like a necessary step to take for companies to conduct business in countries with different laws, while the second seems to raise much more serious ethical issues, as the company is actively helping repressive governments search out and persecute dissidents. I suspect that Dunstan may draw this distinction, as perhaps companies, both inside and outside the GNI, think there are serious differences between the two types of conduct.

	= Chuck =		= Chuck =

Mfeld at 20:30, 5 January 2010

2010-01-05T20:30:19Z

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	Tyler: I expect Chuck to express frustration that more corporations have not signed up for GNI and identify some specific reasons why he thinks GNI has so far been unable to recruit any additional corporations from the initial roster of three (Yahoo!, Google, Microsoft). I also hope that Chuck discusses what preparations Microsoft has made to allow GNI auditors access the sensitive Microsoft information.		Tyler: I expect Chuck to express frustration that more corporations have not signed up for GNI and identify some specific reasons why he thinks GNI has so far been unable to recruit any additional corporations from the initial roster of three (Yahoo!, Google, Microsoft). I also hope that Chuck discusses what preparations Microsoft has made to allow GNI auditors access the sensitive Microsoft information.

			::Michael: I expect that Chuck will express some level of understanding that many companies are still reticent to join GNI in its infancy before there are any real tangible benefits (especially for smaller companies). But I also expect that he will express some optimism that more companies and organizations will begin to join as GNI matures and proves itself.
			::I would like to hear how Chuck thinks abiding by GNI guidelines might affect smaller companies. If such companies refuse to give foreign governments the information they request, could a boycott of services by that country's government have have a disastrous effect on a smaller companies bottom line?

	Juan: As a stakeholders unite, GNI is supposed to have more flexibility and accommodation than its legislative alternatives, such as GOFA. With this flexibility, how will it attract new members in China, such as Baidu (www.baidu.com, the market leader of search services), Kaixin network (www.kaixin001.com, the most popular social network website in China, which is a knockoff of facebook), Tudou (www.tudou.com, the biggest video site mainly serving local videos) and etc. Facing with a very powerful government, I doubt they will have an incentive to join the GNI.		Juan: As a stakeholders unite, GNI is supposed to have more flexibility and accommodation than its legislative alternatives, such as GOFA. With this flexibility, how will it attract new members in China, such as Baidu (www.baidu.com, the market leader of search services), Kaixin network (www.kaixin001.com, the most popular social network website in China, which is a knockoff of facebook), Tudou (www.tudou.com, the biggest video site mainly serving local videos) and etc. Facing with a very powerful government, I doubt they will have an incentive to join the GNI.